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Lit screens don't work, and dA knows it

Journal Entry: Tue Jan 15, 2013, 6:13 PM
Please know that not only do lit screens not work (Google your work) -- dA knows that it is misrepresenting them. I think folks should write to the Help Desk en masse and let them know that this is simply unacceptable. Here's the interchange I had with them. Be aware.

P.S. The poem used in this example has now been put into storage, and I've requested Google delete the cached version.




realitysquared, Jan 15 01:51 pm (PST):
Thank you for contacting deviantART customer service, I will be assisting you with your support ticket today. My apologies for the delay caused by a large volume of incoming customer service tickets.

Because deviantART is intended to be a publicly viewable gallery of creative works we do not specifically disallow indexing by any internet search engine so depending on how any particular search engine gathers, caches and displays the information they index it is possible that a short preview of your written work may be available in the search results.

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beeinthebottle, Jan 08 06:14 am (PST):
I've noted for quite a while that even with a lit screen ("Hide and require login"), the title AND first several lines of my poems are showing up in Google. An example: Google "Leather beeinthebottle deviantart" -- and you get the poem and the first several lines. You click on the Google link, and if you are logged out, true you don't see the full text. But as long as Google picks up that many lines, there's no "lit screen" protection of my copy. You might as well not use it, and it gives many deviants a false sense of security.

The sample poem I'm using is at beeinthebottle.deviantart.com/… . I've found this to be the case, however, with basically all of my work. Can this be fixed? There's no point of having a lit screen if the piece appears with its text in Google anyway.

CSS designed by Night-Beast · Modified by AlecWolfe · Image by beeinthebottle
  • Mood: Outraged
  • Listening to: The TV.
  • Reading: Chick lit.
  • Watching: Rachel Maddow.
  • Playing: Nothing.
  • Eating: Nothing.
  • Drinking: Fizzy water.
Add a Comment:
 
:iconsadisticicecream:
SadisticIceCream Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013   Writer
This pisses me off. Thanks for spreading the word.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013   Writer
Yup. It's pretty astounding, and not in a good way.
Reply
:iconvespera:
vespera Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Q - if you use Stash, will that pop up in a google search?
I'm only asking because what you could do is stash your newest work and then put links in your journal to the stash so people can read/comment but it won't show up? Just an idea - not sure if that works or not.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
I don't know. I don't think most folks would read it if you did that, anyway. I sort of use my Word Press blog tht way -- to put stuff out there that I don't necessarily want Googled (or Binged or Yahooed). I don't get much traffic, though, which isn't surprising.
Reply
:iconfuzzyhoser:
FuzzyHoser Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Heeeey....the shoey girl may be on to something. If you're just wanting the whole instant gratification thing of making sure it's ready to go out to publishers, then stashing it could work. I mean, you know the lot of us that regularly read wouldn't mind following a link. I wouldn't, anyway. I may even try this, myself, come to think about it.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
Since most of the viewing is through groups -- I don't think it would work. I set up Word Press kinda with that in mind, but I don't get much in the way of comments. I think it would be the same thing.
Reply
:iconfuzzyhoser:
FuzzyHoser Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
That's why I got tired of WordPress, honestly. It bored me over there and the dashboard was a pain to look through things. I always intend to just go and look at people's posts manually...page by page, but I just forget. And yeah, I wasn't getting many messages, either. At the very least, the notifications are more accessible over here, even by way of stash. But, to each her own, I reckon. :)
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
I have one gentleman poet in Australia who tends to respond, which is really nice. I was a featured blog for NaPoWriMo, which is how he found me. A few local people apparently check my blog -- well, at least one guy -- so I'd better start being careful about what I say about the local lit scene. :)
Reply
:iconfuzzyhoser:
FuzzyHoser Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Ahh...well there's nothing better than legit readers like that. It's certainly quality over quantity regarding viewers. ;)
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
You folks are perfectly legit. :heart: But it is kinda kewl to get a little outside attention. OK, so it's one person.... ;)
Reply
(1 Reply)
:icontonepainter:
tonepainter Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Wow... I never thought about this. This is a huge issue for me.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
It is a huge issue. And what's worse is that folks don't realize it.
Reply
:iconpseudometry:
pseudometry Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013   Writer
Psst! A good system I find is to use dual names - one for here and one for submissions! Seems to work for me anyway... ;)
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013   Writer
That just makes them think you stole the piece off of dA. ;)
Reply
:iconpseudometry:
pseudometry Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013   Writer
Haha. Yes, important caveat there! Hmm, perhaps I've just been lucky so far...
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
I'm not sure journals look, or at least most of them. But I'm sure some must.

Then you get down to the whole question of what a "reprint" is and if dA counts....
Reply
:iconpseudometry:
pseudometry Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
The sad truth is, I'm sure lit screens could be easily enough re-jigged to block Google if dA really wanted to.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
I know! That's why I was hoping this blog would spread. But it hasn't. The lit screens work the same way (or, really, don't work) on Bing and Yahoo, too.
Reply
:iconpseudometry:
pseudometry Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
I'm pretty sure there's an option to disable search-engine access/caching somewhere. Can't you do the same for your facebook page, prevent external search engine access? I'm no expert but I'm highly suspicious haha
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
You can't do it on dA -- they'd have to code it on their end. But WordPress does it, so it can't be that hard.
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconscatteredwords:
scatteredwords Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
P.S. how do you add a lit screen anyway?
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
It's just by checking "Hide and require login to view" on the submission page under publishing options.
Reply
:iconscatteredwords:
scatteredwords Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Got it! And done. Even though it's pointless.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013   Writer
As my dad would have said, "It's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick." (i.e., it's better than nothing)
Reply
:iconcrossing-ariel:
crossing-ariel Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
All of my work that appears on dA is copyrighted through the us copyright office. All of it. If anyone misuses it, I know my rights are protected.

Any work I intend on possibly sending out for publication I reserve from dA until I'm certain I've exhausted all my resources, or I know it's not something I want out there in publications representing me as my best work.

Those are the things I do to keep my mind at ease about my writing. :shrug: I figure it's all that can be done.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
I've had a bad tendency to go for instant gratificiation and feedback (by putting a piece on dA) -- and only then becoming aware that perhaps maybe I should have held that one back for publication. I need to change that. In the interim, it would be super if dA would honor its implied promise that pieces need logins to be read and can be put in storage and not accessed. I don't think that's asking too much. Either that, or change the wording on the lit screen.
Reply
:iconcrossing-ariel:
crossing-ariel Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
It's hard, I admit. Writing is such a solo act and it is very hard when you don't have anyone around you to offer feedback...I completely understand the temptation. I've mostly learned to be lonely. It sucks.

And I agree with you.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
I really need to change my approach. It's going to be hard, though.
Reply
:iconcrossing-ariel:
crossing-ariel Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
Yeah, it's not easy. But then again, nothing about writing is. You can do it.

It helps ease the strain if you know one or two people you trust who you can bat your work around with.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
There's a critique circle in town, but it's not the same. Oh, well. I just gotta do it.
Reply
:iconcrossing-ariel:
crossing-ariel Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
I hate critiquing. The idea, especially, of sitting around in a circle of strangers who are looking forward to tearing my work apart despite their own lack of qualifications really turns me off. hehehe. (Don't ask why I'm laughing, I just think my own view on this is funny for some indefinable reason...maybe exhaustion.)
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
Oh, I'm not fond of critiquing either. I swore I'd believe in it on the day someone told me my poem was fine the way it is. (There's always something; it's the expectation of critique.) I have to say, I was a bit surprised, gratified even, when I brough a piece yesterday to the circle to be told it was "almost done." Which I agree; there was a fix or two I accepted that improved it.

In general, I've noted that the top echelon poets around here don't bother with critique circles. I'm guessing they can self-critique. I feel like I'm pretty close to that point. Though there's one guy on dA who is a critique genius, and that I would miss if I went off dA.
Reply
(1 Reply)
:icondrakmordis:
drakmordis Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
I've Googled my own work plenty, mostly out of a paranoia that my work is being misappropriated. I've had hits on my work through my page, through other deviant's pages, and through group page search results. I am under no illusion, nor should be any Internet user in 2013, that you actually have creative control of what is released online. The internet is full of all sorts of people, some of them wonderful community members who produce quality original content and intellectual property. There are also thieves, liars, cheats and assholes. Some members of the latter group are not above misappropriating dA submissions, visual and lit, and displaying it as their own.

Personally speaking, much of my work is of a nature that I could give less than a damn whether I am credited or not, as long as it is read and understood. What I don't feel that way about does not appear online. Ever. Period.

I would endorse this approach to every artist in the digital age.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
If you are published, and the publication accepts "reprints" at all, there's often a request to take it down from the 'Net for at least a period of time. With dA, even when a piece is in storage, it appears in the Google results. There's no way to take it down but to delete it and lose all the comments. That's OK, I suppose -- but what's the purpose of storage then?
Reply
:icondrakmordis:
drakmordis Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
I don't see a point in "storage". I don't use it.

It has to be approached with an open-eyed view: dA is in business, and every business needs to get the most out of every dollar of revenue. If they can pad their "features" with largely useless features and offer other features that cost a subscription fee. I've been putting money into this site (when I have it) because I like the Critique feature and I want to monetarily support this platform.

Most of the features on this site are largely useless, in my opinion, and any other features added have to be actually functional for them to improve their revenues meaningfully. Perhaps the realization that there is an actual demand for this functionality will cause them to consider enforcing it.

But Google crawl-bots are feisty little devils, and the site is open to the public. I don't see a good way to win this one.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
They are already promising that they have this functionality. If they would just say, "Lit screen, but it means nothing, Google can still get it, and the Google link works just as well whether or not the piece is in storage" -- I'd be okay with that. But they don't. They claim the piece is hidden to nonsubscribers, and considering the first several lines of the piece are in Google, well, that's simply not true.
Reply
:icondrakmordis:
drakmordis Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
I agree with you.

The easiest action is to stop giving them money until they fix it and encourage others to do the same. Every company thinks in red and black.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
Most likely true. Or simply not use the site, which is where I'm probably heading to.
Reply
:icondrakmordis:
drakmordis Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
I know I need to build a blind portfolio to get anything published at this point. None of the 400+ deviations here can go into a first collection in hard copy. Maybe once there's interest, but the time is coming when I will shut this account down and permanently remove these works from the net, insofar as it is possible (revoking CC rights and saving prior to deletion is recommended).
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
I already back up my dA stuff to a portable hard drive. I'll miss being able to keep the comments, but that's a necessary evil. I can cut and paste them if I feel really stronglly about them.

I've already deleted the content from many of my pieces so that the text can't be accessed in storage. If I want them entirely gone, I'd have to delete them. And that still doesn't prevent them from being archived somewhere.

I always understood that "once on the Internet, always on the Internet." What bugs me most is that dA is giving folks false security. Although all you'd have to do is Google, I suppose, to be aware of that. Which is entirely too easy, if you know to look.
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconvespera:
vespera Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
"...the delay caused by a large volume of incoming customer service tickets." I wonder what those are from?
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
Yeah, an interesting question.
Reply
:iconscatteredwords:
scatteredwords Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
ALSO: It's the same thing even if you store your deviation. Even when logged out, I found a DA link with the FULL TEXT of "Three Things I Do Not Like to Admit." Contemplating deleting the poem off the site all together, but I'm not sure even that will get rid of this page.

And I was told by the Help Desk, "If you don't want it seen, don't put it up."
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
The poem in my link is currently in storage. I believe that the whole thing is visible with login anyway. If someone can confirm this for me -- I'd be grateful.

Bluntly, it sucks.
Reply
:iconscatteredwords:
scatteredwords Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I can't access it, if that makes you feel any better. (I Googled it also.)
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
That's better than nothing. (And thanks.) Now, if I could just get the first several lines off of Google, I'd feel much better. Nothing stopping a potential publisher from Googling those (and who can blame them?). And as you know, the lines don't go away even when the piece is in storage.
Reply
:iconscatteredwords:
scatteredwords Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Could you maybe put lines of XXXXXXXXXXXXX or something in front of the actual poem? I know it's ugly, but maybe then Google would just pick up the XXXXXXXXXX instead of the actual text.

For reference, there is a page where you can request removal of cached pages on Google:
[link]
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
I've been requesting the removal of cached pages pretty constantly. Sometimes it works; sometimes the search engine just recaches them. And the titles don't disappear. I've even changed those, cleared the cache, and still had the old titles show up.

Which has taught me to never, ever give something a very individual title. My best piece is in Google permanently. Even if I remove it from my storage, it will show up on other folks' pages. It's been a learning experience, the hard way.
Reply
:iconscatteredwords:
scatteredwords Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Bah. I never even considered trying to have my work published when I originally posted it.

Seriously still considering deleting Three Things, though it would make me sad.
Reply
:iconbeeinthebottle:
beeinthebottle Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
I tend to consider it after it's gone over reasonably well. Until then, I'm clueless whether or not it's potentially publishable. I find it really hard to judge my own work.
Reply
(1 Reply)
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